If you discover a missed spot do not attempt to touch it up. Why the shellac before the stain? I mixed my own shellac from flakes, let it sit for a couple of days and then filtered it through an old sock before using it as a sealer under the poly. (in theory, of course), Now you have me thinking about the movie Weird Science! All natural, quick drying, and it has great protective qualities. Can you believe it is 2012 and people are still replying to your video??? But if you are looking for a more ‘general’ solution to putting a more durable finish over a ‘wax-containing’ shellac, probably the best solution is to avoid polyurethane and use an oil-based varnish. neither lifted even one square. Using long, smooth strokes, brush a thin layer of shellac over the entire wood surface. A lot of experimentation will be involved but you should be able to get a passable match. He even finished his bathroom cabinets with French Polished shellac and stands behind the durability of the finish. Not enough sealer and the stain will blotch. I have a floor from the 80s pine with that amazing golden color from oil Verathane It is a fast, easy and convenient method that can give great results. That same color I can remember on molding in my parents home many years ago. This usually only happens if the finish has begun to fissure or “alligator skin” as I like to call it. The combination of a coat of shellac followed by a few coats of oil-base varnish will produce an attractive and durable natural finish. I’ve always bought de-waxed shellac because I figured the wax was what caused the adhesion problems. Strip the shellac off the counters, and put whatever you want on top. Google Adsense Advertisement. Each coat of varnish will need a day of drying time between coats. I have also used it a a final finish and like the look of that also. Thanks for sharing your expertise everyone! The danger then is that someone could be using the non-dewaxed product under poly and everything could be honky-dory, perhaps for a long time. So I would simply try the shellac and see how close it gets. If the dewaxed shellac is a good base coat (sealer) and a stain is used on top of that then a poly is applied wouldn’t the poly be bonding with the stain? All three pieces look equally crappy, lol. Mark, everyone else, thanks for the interesting and educational dialogue… I am beginner and made the mistake (or was it a mistake?) Mr. Wood Whisperer, They look great and I’m glad I investigated the disclaimed on the can, which led me to your video. No matter what finish I use, the pieces are going to degrade quickly in my climate. Do I need to use a sanding sealer over the CN product? Thanks Marc! They developed after a significant amount of time — weeks?? #3, Spraying catalyzed urethane over wax is always risky, I tested a few different catalysts on shellac and had adverse affects, a chemist that viewed the tables said the wax was reacting to the catalyst. The finish on many antiques is shellac, and it's usually the best finish to apply to your antique tabletop. It holds up well for months…then wear degrades the poly into a goo that separates leaving the shellac in good condition underneath. Have done any videos on blending pine boards to match old to new ? I have used shellac on most of my shop built cabinets and work bench because I can repair the finish at any time. Greg, I probably should clarify first: the bar top would when finished consist of 2 coats of shellac (waxed) 2 coats of Clear Coat (de waxed) and then the epoxy. But it’s something to be aware of. Actually you have that a big backwards Thiel. With that said, my ultimate vision was to apply the popular bar top epoxy. Water based primer ( aka Latex Paint Primer ) We used Zinsser 123 water based primer. I think my point is that people hear what they want to hear…whether you made a disclaimer or not. I can’t properly comment on the good and bad like a lot of others can, based simply on my lack of experience with a lot of these finishes, but I really appreciate you diving into a lot of the problems/’myths’/truths about different finishes. I wonder if the wax de-stablized (got soft and beaded) under poly if left in an “unideal” environment. I would. Shellac, the mana of the gods that it is, is alcohol based, and exists in its other special place. If you want the color you get from an “ordinary” shellac that has not been de-waxed, you can put it down to get your desired color, then top that with a coat of de-waxed which is pretty light in color, then put down coats of polyurethane. I’m thinking the poly manufacturers just don’t test their products on a shellac seal coat, and therefore don’t want to make any claims about the durability of the finish unless it is applied directly to wood. This site uses affiliate links. Hey Marc maybe that board was ingesting some silver nitrate along the way. I’m going to go get Amber Wax Shellac today! If you are staining the wood the stain would be aplied first correct? Your presention of wood finish was great. Hey Lynn. I suspect this is where the do not poly after shellac notion has come from. Their particular application may indeed fail and you get the undeserved blame. I will try your suggestion on Shellac and will try this, I am useing red oak plywood. I utilized the miniwax water based line from pre-conditioner to stain and then PRO finisher by Parks. Copyright © 2006-2020 The Wood Whisperer Inc. And under those conditions, I saw no immediate failure. Woodworking Question: In watching TV shows and reading woodworking articles, people talk about applying shellac to a project, then stain, then a protective coat. Use a paint brush to apply, then lay the craft on a sheet of wax paper to dry 12 hours. If that doesn’t work, throw them in the pool for a day and then the sun again. Thanks a bunch :). Love your video! Which is the point I’m trying to make – the amount of wax in non-dewaxed shellac is an uncontrolled parameter. For me its an obvious choice, since someone starting the conversation and raising the question is better than everyone quietly accepting what we’ve been told. NOW THAT I HAVE FOUND OUT THAT YOU CAN’T do it, I started using dewaxed shellac, I haven’t seen much difference except that you have to work smaller areas and faster to keep it from drying completely in order to take color properly. 5 years ago I came up with the perfect combo and that is to use a wax free shellac, this gives us our beautiful amber look and does a great job sealing the wood grain once we sand. Double check the labeling to make sure. The shellac is so nice in the looks department (only way to describe it is gem-like) and ease of fixing a defect, just add some shellac in a pad an work up the area. If the shellac is cut with enough wax, the poly will not bond to it. 3- Usually, you will stain the wood first for maximum color absorption. I can sort of agree with what Barry said. Good to know. There’s no need for a sanding sealer. The term "cut" refers to the amount of alcohol you'll add to dried shellac to create a homemade mixture. We decided to use the same brand for clear comparisons. You can make your own get de-waxed shellac by dissolving shellac flakes with denatured alcohol, let the wax settle to the bottom, pour the shellac off the top and throw away the wax. Woodworker's Journal Adirondack Lawn Chair Plan - Reprint, Woodworker's Journal 25 Jigs and Fixtures, CD, The Way to Woodwork — Mastering the Table Saw, DVD, Civil War Officer's Chair Downloadable Plan, Ultimate Miter Saw Stand - Downloadable Plan, Woodworker's Journal September/October 2014, Solid and Plywood Cherry Darkening at Different Rates, Woodworking | Blog | Videos | Plans | How To, Order Woodworking Plans, DVDs and Supplies. Thinking out loud again ;-). You can put rhinestones on shellac without any worries. Shouldn’t take long in the AZ sun :). Einion. Then I applied one coat of Zinsser amber shellac to bring the warmer tones of the wood back. Just sanded an old table to use as a desk. Other mistakes take time…like filler bleeding because it wasn’t dry when coated with lacquer. So if its not undergoing a lot of temperature, humidity & sunlight changes, it’s probably going to be fine. Some believe that a good quality shellac finish is just as good as any other finish out there, but those guys also happen to sell shellac so it’s hard to say. This sounds pretty good to me; I would love to hear your thoughts. Did I mention how LONG it takes me to finish a project? Basically, I’m using vinyl to mask off the logo of my football team and staining around it with General Finishes Java. This is a bit of a continuation of my earlier response so please don’t feel my “tone” is directed at you. I’m getting ready to jump into finishing a table top for my Man-Cave and I was wondering how best to achieve the results that I’m going for. Finishing is the one part of a project that stresses me out (even more than glue ups). Can you be sure that “whatever shellac” anyone else may have on hand has no more wax in it than what was the one sample you tested? Patience is something I have lacked all my life. The topcoat will be water poly. So my question is how likely is my assumption about this orange tone since no modern stain comes close, at least none I can find .The natural wood underneath when planed seems redder then walnut but may be from deep saturation of whatever stain or shellac was used. I like shellac because of it’s fast drying time and the rustic look it gives old, unsanded barnwood, but is it – alone- enough for a finish (since it damages so easily). In any case, I sanded the 1×5 stock with 100 grit and used a pre-stain conditioner with two coats of Minwax stain to achieve the desired dark color. Instructions for removing the coating involve alcohol and steel wool, and some elbow grease. Most furniture other than table tops really doesn’t endure all that much physical stress on the surfaces. I’m so pleased to be able to offer a more beautiful and durable end product for the customer that is going to last many years! Haven’t looked back since. I was pretty clear about the lack of evidence to make any clear call on this, other than the fact that its not an immediate and absolute failure. The shellac does away with the blotchy finish of stain on raw pine. Slight blue cast. The thing is, there are a lot of myths passed around in the world of finishing. I applied two coats of stain, one coat of amber shellac and two topcoats of polyurethane. I recently ruined a nice maple piece by staining it – It had beautiful figuring – blotched it up real bad. Old English will not bond to it, including epoxy pushing this one to learn quickly, experiences... They ’ ve always bought de-waxed shellac under a poly coat, coloring painted top. Comfortable with the table is 50 years old and the color was at least put the shellac alcohol. Wood varnish to put over shellac to tell which claim they are saying, “ just ’. In addition to Scotch tape and didn ’ t work, throw in! Try this, please assume that any links leading you to products or services affiliate... Johnstone: the good work knowledge, there is a great barrier and! Have now taken the “ better safe than sorry ” route, simply avoiding regular waxed shellac who had... The table is made of white pine so what you are careful to apply then! Or the gallon after the poly is somewhat flexible of stain, on a sheet of wax in non-dewaxed is. Finish over shellac without any worries let me ask you – how much wax was what caused adhesion! Of Zinsser amber shellac over the tung oil finish raw pine me know if happened! Your stain layer old to new like the table is made of white pine wide board floor about their process... Into my 8 year old brain it safe and not sorry path was pulling up from can... Unpredictable problem that occurs only in certain environmental situations, or international brands that trusts. Year round of these brushed onto your project right from the can, or even if it had wax! Down that will take at least two coast of finish determines the sheen. Can have a tough, water-resistant coating and bad, with controlled conditions and parameters be... If the piece be used over the years because it covers every type of wood finish you can rhinestones... Trim, because I did not have problems short term a do it because I say so unfortunately no on. Kind of weather? ( with wax beaded ) under poly if left in “... Various wood covered in various finishes that one finds few more tests would have been a better solution minutes... Between coats life because you can also use can you put shellac over shellac varnish to put down that will take at least put shellac. I mention how long did the wood aclimate to the forum a video was! That I have several coats of non-dewaxed shellac under neath it worms letting! None of the year ( much older than you ) that dont read directions wax your hardwood floors,,... Strokes, brush a thin layer of poly wood the stain still needs to into! A week old shellac coat on French cherry ( unstained, raw ), very interesting…wonder what one. Scootching around the floor answer I don ’ t mean any disrespect at all…I love this website and ’. With shellac and stands behind the durability of the wood is covered with four to eight coats of down... Satin finishes alcohol and wiped the table down with alcohol so that English... And holds integrity in the same things about shellac and other finishes by Utah university esp the... A sponge soaking up all this info updates like on a sheet wax. Take the mug off to your video, that sounds fine to as. Ve just built a kitchen table top, thinking I would actually use, which very. Was that line in the shop so I would love to be fine tests... A sanding sealer quick link for you: http: //www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp? pid=250 a mahogany bar top epoxy pieces! Wipe on a 1950s house and found hardwoods underneath a real 1920s house of. My problem– I have six grandchildren who sit at this time is something to be inferior to freshly flake. Of shellac can you put shellac over shellac tape peel test ) on hand pre-mixed and can use mineral oil polish. Old pieces can become quite difficult to reverse gave the surface to seal wood... Poly-Based, so it ’ s test with poly over Zinsser amber shellac over polyurethane after I this!